MR. CLINTON: No, sir, I was not.
MR. JAHN: OK. You indicated that you had been to that area on one occasion, and your recollection was that it was in June of 1986. Do you remember that?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, I do.
MR. JAHN: OK. If you would, sir, your calendar also reflects that in October of 1985, more specifically, October 26th, 1985, you went to the Siemens-Allison plant for their 15th anniversary celebration. Do you remember, sir, going to the Siemens-Allison plant at that location where you described in October of 1985 to celebrate their 15th celebration - 15th anniversary?
MR. CLINTON: I believe I did go there, yes, sir.
MR. JAHN: All right. At the time that you went, sir, that was on a Saturday, do you recall whether or not you knew Mr. Tucker had, in fact, purchased some real estate in that particular area?
MR. CLINTON: I did not know that.
MR. JAHN: OK. Your telephone call, toll records, sir, reflect that on the following Monday, October 28th, 1985, you received a phone call from Mr. McDougal. Do you recall, sir, what it was that you spoke to Mr. McDougal about on October 28th, 1985?
MR. CLINTON: I don't know that I did speak to him.
MR. JAHN: Well, if you can, let me show you some - are you familiar with the record-keeping system by Ms. Dixon, sir?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. JAHN: OK.
MR. JAHN: If I may have a second, Your Honor.
I'm going to show what has been marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 71-B as in boy, reflecting a page of her records of October 28th, 1985. Do you see that before you, sir?
MR. CLINTON: (Reviews document.) This appears to be just a series of notes that Linda Dixon made to herself, yes, sir.
MR. JAHN: And reflects a Jim McDougal, 3 p.m., 374-7777; is that correct, sir?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, sir. But it doesn't reflect whether he called for me or for Betsey Wright.
MR. JAHN: OK. That's a good point, sir. But as far as the notation or the scratching out of the document, do you know what Ms. Dixon's practice was as far as calls which were either completed or returned as far as scratching out those particular document?
MR. CLINTON: No, sir, I don't.
MR. JAHN: OK. And Ms. Dixon was - what was her position at the time, sir?
MR. CLINTON: She was my secretary.
MR. JAHN: All right. And is she still employed with you, sir?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, she is.
MR. JAHN: OK. And what is her position now, sir?
MR. CLINTON: She works in our office in Arkansas.
MR. JAHN: OK. And as far as - but back to the question, sir. Do you recall receiving a phone call in October - October 28th, 1985 from Mr. McDougal?
MR. CLINTON: No, sir. I have gotten a few phone calls since then. That was more than 10 years ago. I don't remember it, no.
MR. JAHN: Sir, the records of the governor's mansion of the state of Arkansas reflect that on December 19th, 1985, Mr. McDougal and Senator Fulbright came by the mansion and visited with you. Do you remember that event, sir?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, sir. I remember that Senator Fulbright was in town and he wanted to see me, I wanted to see him, and Jim was good enough to bring him by.
MR. JAHN: OK. During the course of that visit, sir, did you and Mr. McDougal have any conversations concerning the development of his property called Castle Grande out at the 145th Street location that you've talked about?
MR. CLINTON: No, sir. I believe it was just a social visit with Senator Fulbright.
MR. JAHN: OK. In that case, then, do you recall any conversations you might have had concerning some property that he desired to purchase from International Paper Company, property that later became known as the Lorance Heights development?
MR. CLINTON: No, sir, we never talked about that.
MR. JAHN: Now, you testified on your direct, sir, that you recall an occasion in January of 1986 when Mr. McDougal came by the mansion and visited with you; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, sir, he did.
MR. JAHN: And your recollection, sir, was that that was sparked by some difficulty that he was having with the state of Arkansas, with an agency within the state of Arkansas?
MR. CLINTON: That's correct.
MR. JAHN: Sir, if you would, I'm going to show you what has been marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 81. Government's Exhibit 81, sir, is a memo addressed to you; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Yes, sir.
MR. JAHN: And it reflects the discussion concerning that meeting on that Saturday in 1986, January 1986; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Well, this is a memo to me from Nancy Hernreich, who was at that time my scheduler, and it has got my check on it in a handwritten notation, it is in my handwriting. It says Mr. McDougal wants to see me before Tuesday.
MR. JAHN: OK. And it has the notation of 1/14 as the date, and then a notation of 1/18, "1 slash 18, Saturday, mansion"; is that correct, sir?
MR. CLINTON: That's correct.
MR. JAHN: And the handwriting at the bottom this "Saturday morning," that is your handwriting?
MR. CLINTON: "Saturday morning," that is my handwriting.
MR. JAHN: Your Honor, we move the introduction of Government's Exhibit 81.
THE COURT: All right. Received.
MR. JAHN: In that, sir, what is the stated purpose as far as Mr. McDougal's desire to see you on that Saturday, the 18th of 1986, sir?
MR. CLINTON: Well, this says - I will just read it. May I read it?
MR. JAHN: Yes, sir, please. It is in evidence.
MR. CLINTON: This is a note from Nancy. It says, "He needs to see you before Tuesday to get you to sign some personal business papers. The best time would be this weekend or next Monday, which is a state holiday. Any time is fine with Jim. Do you want me to have him come by?" So, this is between 1/14 and the next Tuesday, and I said, "Saturday morning."
MR. JAHN: Yes, sir. What were the personal papers that Mr. McDougal wanted you to sign, sir?
MR. CLINTON: I don't know. I don't remember. And I'm not sure there were any.
MR. JAHN: Well, Mr. McDougal at this time was a friend of yours; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Yes.
MR. JAHN: He was a political adviser to a certain extent; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: He gave me some political advice, yes.
MR. JAHN: He was a business partner of yours; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Yes.
MR. JAHN: It wasn't necessary for him to fib to your staff in order to get to see you, was it, sir?
MR. CLINTON: No.
MR. JAHN: Do you recall, sir, whether or not you were asked to sign any personal papers on January 18th, 1986, by Mr. McDougal when he came to the mansion?
MR. CLINTON: I do not remember signing any papers like that.
MR. JAHN: All right. And no one has ever shown you any personal papers that bear a date of January 18th, 1986, that you signed for - on behalf of Mr. McDougal, have you, sir?
MR. CLINTON: I don't remember doing it, and I have seen no documents that indicate that I did.
MR. JAHN: All right. And as far as that particular visit, do you recall one particular reason that he came. Do you recall him bringing any personal papers with him when he came, sir?
MR. CLINTON: I don't, no.
MR. JAHN: Did he discuss with you, sir, any negotiations that he had concerning the purchase of property from International Paper Corporation in January of 1986?
MR. CLINTON: Absolutely not. He never talked to me about that.
MR. JAHN: Did he discuss with you any hopes or expectations that he might have concerning his Castle Grande real estate development during that meeting in January of 1986?
MR. CLINTON: I don't remember any such discussion.
MR. JAHN: Did he discuss with you the prospect of, regardless of the names, of acquiring additional property south? You do know where Castle Grande is, right? I mean, you are familiar now with - that that was the name that was applied to the 145th Street development area by Mr. McDougal? I just want to make sure we are on the same wavelength.
MR. CLINTON: I'm familiar with the fact that he had that property on 145th Street.
MR. JAHN: Yes, sir. And are you familiar, then, that there was advertising concerning Castle Grande and that was the name that was applied to that particular real estate?
MR. CLINTON: If you say so, I'll take your word for it.
MR. JAHN: Well, I'm just asking you. OK. So, let's talk about the 145th Street - let's just call it the Castle Grande property, if we can. We have to make sure you and I understand what we are talking about. Did he talk to you concerning any hopes and expectations that he had as far as developments of the Castle Grande property?
MR. CLINTON: The only property he spoke with me about was the property that he was having trouble with the Health Department on. Now, I know that wasn't Whitewater property, I don't believe it was Castle Grande property, but it was some property where there was no municipal sewer system, and it had to be inspected by the state and approved for installation of septic tanks.
MR. JAHN: Maybe I can help you -
MR. CLINTON: And I don't know whether - now, maybe that was the Castle Grande property, but I don't know. I have no recollection of that. There was no discussion of property acquisition or finances or anything. He was upset because he thought the Health Department was not giving him a fair shake on this property. I have a very clear memory of that, and that's all I remember him talking to me about.
MR. JAHN: Let's be more specific, then, and maybe I can help you. Do you remember Maple Creek Farms, do you remember that was the property where he was having the difficulty with the Health Department, was Maple Creek Farms?
MR. CLINTON: I remember that he owned some property called Maple Creek, but I don't remember - if that's where it was, I'll take your word for it. I'm sure there are documents on that.
MR. JAHN: But then you have no independent recollection, then, of any conversation on January 18th concerning either developments of Castle Grande; is that correct, sir?
MR. CLINTON: That's correct.
MR. JAHN: You have no independent recollection, did he discuss with you purchases of the Castle Sewer and Water by Jim Guy Tucker during the course of that January 18th, 1986 meeting?
MR. CLINTON: No, sir, I don't.
MR. JAHN: OK.
MR. CLINTON: Not at that meeting.
MR. JAHN: And you have no recollection, then, concerning purchases of property from International Paper Corporation; is that correct?
MR. CLINTON: Absolutely not. We never discussed anything having to do with International Paper Corporation.
FORWARD: Cross-Examination by the Prosecutor, Ray Jahn (continued), with introduction of Exhibit 93