MR. LEE: Let me ask you, first of all, you have told Emmett Tyrrell that you went on a CIA operation to Central America with Barry Seal and that Seal returned with a small amount of cocaine. Could you tell me the entire story?
MR. BROWN: Well, apparently you have seen the American Spectator article. It is pretty accurate. There is not a whole heck of a lot to add to that. The only thing that Tyrrell did not write that I had originally told him was the addendum, I guess you could say, to the comment that Clinton had made to me when I came back. He just said "Your buddy Bush, your hero Bush knows about it."
He introduced me to [George] Bush in 1983 in Maine. And, of course, during the time he was shepherding me through this CIA application thing and getting involved with Seal and other individuals which I can't talk about. We had talked about Bush being a former director [of CIA] and all of that. So that's kind of one of the things that floored me when I got back, that apparently - according to him, I have no first hand knowledge - but according to him that Bush knew about it.
I went on after that to work in the Bush campaign in 1988 and I flew his children around here in Arkansas during the 1988 campaign. But I stayed out of the 1992 campaign - always fearing that, more or less, this stuff may or may not come out.
And Marvin, there is some other stuff that has not come out which I can't talk about. Which I told Tyrrell I couldn't also.
You know, this crazy thing, in April of 1984 I was reading the New York Times out at the guard shack at the Mansion. Of course, I was working for Clinton, we were good friends. And I had seen that advertisement [for CIA applicants] and he and I looked it over and he encouraged me to apply and the whole thing is kind of history from there.
My involvement with Seal was strictly limited to those two airplane flights and that was it. And what motivation he had to tell me that "That's Lasater's deal," and what Lasater's deal was and is, I don't know.
MR. LEE: So you don't know whether Clinton had any connection to the CIA or what his connection to the CIA would be?
MR. BROWN: Well, that's something I can't talk about right now. But yes, he did have connections to the CIA, no doubt about it!
MR. LEE: You say you can't talk about it, are you saving it for a special opportunity to bring it all out in the open?
MR. BROWN: No, no I am not. Good question, but no I am not (laughs).
MR. LEE: Okay, it is something that is too sensitive?
MR. BROWN: Right.
MR. LEE: Let me ask you then, you left the CIA after that episode, right?
MR. BROWN: Well, I discontinued my involvement with Seal, I can tell you that.
MR. LEE: Did you encounter any problems because of that, did you receive threats because you decided not to do it any more?
MR. BROWN: Oh, I had further conversations about it with Seal, but he never threatened me. Not at all.
MR. LEE: But you were in the process of becoming an employee of the CIA, were you not?
MR. BROWN: Well, I was, but the way they ran that operation, I found out later, was to more or less do it with people that were subcontractors, as you would call it.
MR. LEE: So you would be called a CIA "asset."
MR. BROWN: Well, for lack of a better term, yes. Those terms are kind of misleading and misapplied sometimes, I think.
MR. LEE: You would prefer using the word "contractor"?
MR. BROWN: Contractor would be best. That's essentially what everybody was. There were people that were involved that were on the payroll, what we call "credential carrying operations officers," there's no doubt about that. But they were removed from the hands-on operation, that's a fact.
MR. LEE: I have a source in Costa Rica who says that he was introduced to the Arkansas National Guard and Buddy Young down there in 1984 during the Contra operation. Have you any idea what Buddy Young would be doing down there?
MR. BROWN: No, are they sure it was Buddy Young?
MR. LEE: Pretty sure. I am currently trying to run it down.
MR. BROWN: Hmm. Well, yes, there were some things that were going on, not in Costa Rica, it was in Honduras during that time.
MR. LEE: The maneuvers of the Arkansas National Guard?
MR. BROWN: Right.
MR. LEE: But nobody knew that Buddy Young was involved?
MR. BROWN: No, and I don't think Buddy was. There was a good friend of mine that was, he was actually in the guard unit that went.
MR. LEE: So, do you know anything about what the National Guard did down there, was it just maneuvers, or were they involved?
MR. BROWN: The unit that I am familiar with was a medical unit.
MR. LEE: So did they help out the Contras?
MR. BROWN: Well, whether they did or didn't, I think people are barking up the wrong tree if they think that it was direct involvement of Clinton, other than the fact that he approved that they go down there. And of course, we talked about that. I think it was more coincidental than anything, believe it or not. Because logistically it didn't help anything that I was involved in, I know that. Not at all.
MR. LEE: I think that you have said that you accompanied Bill Clinton to Mena on several occasions. Can you tell me what did he did there?
MR. BROWN: As best I can remember it was for some innocuous reason which would have been campaign swings, fundraiser speeches, things of that nature. Not anything that stands out.
MR. LEE: So Clinton's only link to potential drug importation would have been what he said to you, then?
MR. BROWN: Well, another governor security officer out there at the time, by the name of Bobby Walker, which you have probably read about in Bob Tyrrell's piece, told me several months ago that one time when he flew in with him [Clinton] he saw that huge airplane sitting out there and he asked Clinton if the National Guard was meeting us or whatever, and Clinton acknowledged then that he more or less knew what the airplane was for. I thought that was pretty interesting. I never knew that information. I don't remember that plane sitting there when he and I would go in and out of there, but I don't know that I would have.
MR. LEE: Have you told all of this to Kenneth Starr and to the House Banking Committee or to ABC News?
MR. BROWN: No, ABC asked me about it and I wouldn't talk about it in October of last year. Mr. Starr's people had put me on notice that they are going to interview me about it before I went public with it, which is one of the reasons that I did. That, and I was going to be subpoenaed - we had had conversations between my lawyer and Terry Reed's lawyer - they had been threatening to subpoena me for months and were about to do that.
And Clinton, quite frankly, broached the CIA subject with ABC back last October when I know he thought I was going to tell back then.
MR. LEE: Has ABC News contacted you again recently?
MR. BROWN: Yes, ABC has.
MR. LEE: So have they done an interview with you?
MR. BROWN: No, I told them I didn't want to do one with them (laughs.) The experience I had last October, you know, we spent three hours sitting down with Jim Wooten and I invited him into my home and my family was on tape - the whole nine yards - and they more or less acquiesced to Clinton over that and spiked the story.
My understanding now is that "60 Minutes" is going to do a thing on it and I'm going to be up in New York next week talking to them.
MR. LEE: So you trust them more than ABC News?
MR. BROWN: Well, no, not necessarily. But I think I would probably cooperate with them given some ground rules and if they are not willing to acquiesce to that then I'm just not going to do it.
But, you know, I did cooperate with that British film crew that came in and I talked to them today as a matter of fact.
MR. LEE: What about the House Banking Committee, Ganis has he talked to you?
MR. BROWN: No, I understand that they are supposed to be contacting me, but they haven't talked to me yet.
MR. LEE: Let me finally ask, how do you make a living these days?
MR. BROWN: Well, (laughs) I'm on medical leave right now, contemplating surgery which I haven't really decided whether I am going to have or not. I have three ruptured disks from - it's a long story - but from a car accident out here. And I am going to explore some options, I really don't have anything lined up right now. I do have mounting legal bills, which is one reason I have though about putting something on that Internet, if people would want to, I have a trust fund set up that I can't touch that goes straight to my attorney.
MR. LEE: I'd be happy helping you set that up.
MR. BROWN: Oh, great, I would appreciate the help.
By the way, tell your readers they can email me at: LDBATLR@aol.com
[L.D. Brown's Home Page is expected be up soon at: http://www.federal.com/LDBrown.html. Please do not distribute this transcript. Instead, you may refer people to the future home page where the transcript will be available soon.]
[Printed in the October 2, 1995 issue of the Washington Weekly]